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Old 11-09-2019, 04:28 PM   #48841
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Forget for a moment whether or not such large companies should even exist, but if you can build a company thatís valuable enough, you should be able to be a billionaire. It just needs to be a hell of a lot harder to get there with way higher tax brackets for wealthy people, a wealth tax, closed loopholes (both personal and corporate), etc. If you can still be a billionaire after paying all those $ in taxes, keep your billion.
Yeah, we need to work to get rid of the aristocracy. Inheriting world controlling amounts of money is bad.

Earning it while paying a lot towards others is fine.

People too often discount how hard it is to build something and manage it successfully through several stages of growth.
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Old 11-09-2019, 06:24 PM   #48842
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Picketty with 200 years worth of data says we need an 80% wealth tax to eevn begin to start converging towards economic equality so I'm gonna go ahead and say billionaires shouldnt exist (he also uses that data to evidence that capitalism here isn't based on meritocracy like many economists want to imply)
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Old 11-09-2019, 07:12 PM   #48843
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There’s no feasible / reasonable plan that could result in billionaires being an impossibility that wouldn’t be an abject disaster. Make acquiring large sums of money way harder. Make inheriting large sums of money even harder than that. But drawing some arbitrary line in the sand for an amount of money people can’t have is stupid as shit.
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Old 11-09-2019, 07:36 PM   #48844
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Thereís no feasible / reasonable plan that could result in billionaires being an impossibility that wouldnít be an abject disaster. Make acquiring large sums of money way harder. Make inheriting large sums of money even harder than that. But drawing some arbitrary line in the sand for an amount of money people canít have is stupid as shit.
Are you new here?

People should not have to or be able to earn anything. No matter how hard or how little you work you should have the same as everyone else. No matter how much more skilled, or driven, or talented than you are than anyone else.

Money is for the weak. There should be a very tight band of income range as dictated by the central committee.
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Old 11-09-2019, 07:47 PM   #48845
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I love the naivety of the wealth tax. People really underestimate rich people's ability to protect their assets or how easy it is for them to move their assets to untouchable status (which is what happened with every other country who has tried to implement one). People are greatly underestimating the ability and cost to enforce the types of taxes that are being proposed and way overestimating the return.

The types of bean counters (tax lawyers, high level CPAs) you need to enforce and go after people for wealth tax aren't cheap. Especially when you factor how many you need and the fact that you'll be competing with the wealthiest people and corporations for their services. (BRB, going to start on my CPA.)
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Old 11-09-2019, 07:53 PM   #48846
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Obviously those plans are coupled with loophole closures and increasing enforcement. Easy place to start is actually funding the IRS so they can afford to go after the wealthy.
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Old 11-09-2019, 08:10 PM   #48847
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Obviously those plans are coupled with loophole closures and increasing enforcement. Easy place to start is actually funding the IRS so they can afford to go after the wealthy.
The problem all of these plans is that the rich control the system.

It is an obvious start. It is also very unlikely that adequate funding will be dedicated towards sensible taxation laws and more importantly enforcement of those laws.

The powerful will keep their power.
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Old 11-09-2019, 08:44 PM   #48848
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How do you convince rich people to get behind something that will make them less rich?

Without violence?
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Old 11-09-2019, 09:24 PM   #48849
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Originally Posted by Rob S View Post
There’s no feasible / reasonable plan that could result in billionaires being an impossibility that wouldn’t be an abject disaster. Make acquiring large sums of money way harder. Make inheriting large sums of money even harder than that. But drawing some arbitrary line in the sand for an amount of money people can’t have is stupid as shit.
Shrug again, 200 years worth of data suggest otherwise. I suggest you check out capital in the 21st century if you havent already. One of the watershed pieces of research in economics and unlike most theory actually substantiates what its saying. So its not an arbitrary line whatsoever.

Its also done by an economist who doesn't just hate rich people or think that inequality is inherently wrong, nor does he hate capitalism.

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Are you new here?

People should not have to or be able to earn anything. No matter how hard or how little you work you should have the same as everyone else. No matter how much more skilled, or driven, or talented than you are than anyone else.

Money is for the weak. There should be a very tight band of income range as dictated by the central committee.
Meritocracy is a myth. No one gets that rich through hard work in this country. And thats the problem.

Last edited by Jvig43; 11-09-2019 at 09:27 PM.
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Old 11-09-2019, 09:48 PM   #48850
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Shrug again, 200 years worth of data suggest otherwise. I suggest you check out capital in the 21st century if you havent already. One of the watershed pieces of research in economics and unlike most theory actually substantiates what its saying. So its not an arbitrary line whatsoever.

Its also done by an economist who doesn't just hate rich people or think that inequality is inherently wrong, nor does he hate capitalism.



Meritocracy is a myth. No one gets that rich through hard work in this country. And thats the problem.
Meritocracy is not a myth. But it only seems to work on smaller levels.

Sadly itís also not how the world at large works.

Iíve participated in meritocracy. I have been rewarded financially and with title for doing very complex and difficult work, both technical and political within an organization.

OTOH the world at large doesnít work that way. Way too often it is about whom you know and how much you can help someone. Favors are bought and sold. Itís very discouraging for those many of us not in the game (queue bbd).

We need many more levers to get people into the game. Socio economic disparity is at a generational high.

We need dampening factors on inheritance of massive amounts of money and property. We need dampening factors while people hoard assets as they accumulate them. The rich either need to be taxed heavily or incentivized heavily to invest in the economy. Stale money and assets help no one but those sitting on them.

Those with power and money in the private and public sectors have a responsibility to society. Right now too many of them are shirking that.
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Old 11-09-2019, 09:56 PM   #48851
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Meritocracy is not a myth. But it only seems to work on smaller levels.

Sadly itís also not how the world at large works.

Iíve participated in meritocracy. I have been rewarded financially and with title for doing very complex and difficult work, both technical and political within an organization.

OTOH the world at large doesnít work that way. Way too often it is about whom you know and how much you can help someone. Favors are bought and sold. Itís very discouraging for those many of us not in the game (queue bbd).

We need many more levers to get people into the game. Socio economic disparity is at a generational high.

We need dampening factors on inheritance of massive amounts of money and property. We need dampening factors while people hoard assets as they accumulate them. The rich either need to be taxed heavily or incentivized heavily to invest in the economy. Stale money and assets help no one but those sitting on them.

Those with power and money in the private and public sectors have a responsibility to society. Right now too many of them are shirking that.
I actually agree with a lot of this. But myself and others would argue that this isn't a problem of capitalism and more so a feature of it. Which is why you get people saying we need such a high wealth tax to keep things from spiraling out of control. Rate of return on capital far exceeds the growth of the economy, and from the 1900s on its been a consistent indicator for income inequality.

I'm with you about what needs to happen but we both know its not going to. I'm just unsure whether global warming is going to wipe us all out before people wake the fuck up and unify to do something about.
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Old 11-09-2019, 10:04 PM   #48852
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I actually agree with a lot of this. But myself and others would argue that this isn't a problem of capitalism and more so a feature of it. Which is why you get people saying we need such a high wealth tax to keep things from spiraling out of control. Rate of return on capital far exceeds the growth of the economy, and from the 1900s on its been a consistent indicator for income inequality.

I'm with you about what needs to happen but we both know its not going to. I'm just unsure whether global warming is going to wipe us all out before people wake the fuck up and unify to do something about.
I actually agree with most of you guys on goals for society. I just disagree on some of the mechanisms to get to those goals.

After dealing with rich and powerful people from a position below them, the idea of moving a whole bunch of them in a direction that ďharmsĒ them is very daunting.
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Old 11-09-2019, 10:16 PM   #48853
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I actually agree with most of you guys on goals for society. I just disagree on some of the mechanisms to get to those goals.

After dealing with rich and powerful people from a position below them, the idea of moving a whole bunch of them in a direction that ďharmsĒ them is very daunting.
Yeah but we both know that saying it "harms" them is a very VERY relative term. If we taxed Gates networth 100 billion like he said "I'd have nothing left", he'd actually still have a net worth of 8 billion. Like not sure the word harm is an apt descriptor here (I get what you mean by it tho).

We also have the issue of the panama papers revealing that the amount of wealth they hide off shore would be enough, if properly reported and taxed, to wipe out the entire national debt.

It is daunting and I'm not sure its even feasible to course correct at this point.
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Old 11-10-2019, 04:11 PM   #48854
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Old 11-11-2019, 02:08 PM   #48855
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White liberals in here complaining about how hard work hasn’t paid off for them. This thread always delivers.

You guys are wasting your time trying to have reasonable discussion with them. It’s far more enjoyable to just point and laugh at them.
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Old 11-11-2019, 02:12 PM   #48856
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really hope someone goes after Schumer's seat, instead of that ginger Kennedy kid running for an actual liberal's seat

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Old 11-11-2019, 02:42 PM   #48857
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AOC knocking off both Schumer and Crowley in a 5 year period would be hilarious.
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Old 11-11-2019, 02:47 PM   #48858
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It would be terrifying tbh. AOC and Ilhan are having a tug of war right now to see who’s the bigger dumbass. Ilhan is winning right now.

I can see AOC having more power 5 years from now and Ilhan being out of office bc Minnesota is less forgiving of liberal stupidity than NY is.
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Old 11-11-2019, 02:49 PM   #48859
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Old New York politicians are the worst people in the world. Just craven, corrupt dweebs.
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Old 11-11-2019, 02:52 PM   #48860
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Also Bloomberg is the hero we need right now but don’t deserve. If he wins the primaries (he won’t) I’d strongly consider voting for him over trump.

But realistically what will happen is he’ll take primary votes away from Biden and warren will win. Then she’ll get smoked by trump and I’ll have my king for another 4 years.

So either way I’m good.
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