NFL Conference Championship Discussion Thread

[BeerBaron]

Originally Posted by Forenci

I mean it feels like Von Miller would have been a massive difference maker against that banged up Bengals line and against the Chiefs. Him getting hurt kinda sucked for them.

That's a good point, too. Miller was their "put them over the top" move and they lost him.

Still, that was a massive flame out. They just didn't show for that game after barely beating the Dolphins with a third string QB.

Assuming they keep McDermott...which coordinator do they fire? They guy getting head coach interviews after leading the #2 offense in the NFL? Or the guy they've repeatedly said it's a shame that he doesn't get HC interviews after leading the #6 defense?

They could swap out some position coaches, but that hardly feels like the "making changes" at the level that's being talked about.

[BeerBaron]

Bill O'Brien back to the Patriots as OC.

[McGee]

Originally Posted by Forenci

I mean it feels like Von Miller would have been a massive difference maker against that banged up Bengals line and against the Chiefs. Him getting hurt kinda sucked for them.

This is why we’re still allowed to hate the Lions

I don’t know if it would have quite closed the gap we saw on Sunday but of course he would be good to have. Every team has injuries but losing Von and having to some degree a compromised Josh is a big miss of top tier players. But it’s still tough to tell what we were doing for much of this time. I think most people were pretty happy with Cook this year, but he and every other back we brought in this year was supposed to help a lot more in the passing game and we just never saw that. Davis was supposed to be a stud #2 after his playoffs last year and he just wasn’t, and every in season adjustment to that fact was tremendously underwhelming. Spencer Brown went nowhere this year, the line as a whole was pretty weak for Josh but that one stands out. And finally the defensive and decision making mindset in the playoffs just does not seem to match what they show in the regular season, which, sure, maybe you can get away with more (or less, technically) during those games but god it just stands out as such a disappointment at the top on this stage

[Zak]

Schoen and Daboll were the guys really running the Bills duh.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by Brodie

Hell the 49ers burned 3rd round picks on two RBs that haven't done shit for them in 2 straight years.

Mitchell being a 7th rounder and Jordan Mason being undrafted is great, until you reminded me about Sermon and Davis-Price. what a waste.

[Prock]

Leslie Frazier has been a solid DC for them for awhile but the end of the year reminded me why I couldn't wait to be rid of Leslie Frazier.

But yeah, seems like stagnation hit the Bills pretty hard with some of their young guys.

[BeerBaron]

Originally Posted by McGee

This is why we’re still allowed to hate the Lions

I don’t know if it would have quite closed the gap we saw on Sunday but of course he would be good to have. Every team has injuries but losing Von and having to some degree a compromised Josh is a big miss of top tier players. But it’s still tough to tell what we were doing for much of this time. I think most people were pretty happy with Cook this year, but he and every other back we brought in this year was supposed to help a lot more in the passing game and we just never saw that. Davis was supposed to be a stud #2 after his playoffs last year and he just wasn’t, and every in season adjustment to that fact was tremendously underwhelming. Spencer Brown went nowhere this year, the line as a whole was pretty weak for Josh but that one stands out. And finally the defensive and decision making mindset in the playoffs just does not seem to match what they show in the regular season, which, sure, maybe you can get away with more (or less, technically) during those games but god it just stands out as such a disappointment at the top on this stage

Something else...I'm wondering if you noticed it too...that bugged me about the Bills this year that didn't click until my brother-in-law Bills fan talked about it on Thanksgiving - Allen's lack of running on the season.

I get after the shoulder injury that they'd pull back on designed runs especially, but it was such a huge part of their offense in years past and it became almost nonexistant. It really seemed like he wasn't even looking to run. I remember the play where it came up that day, it was like a 3rd and 3 near midfield and Allen probably could have taken off running for at least 10...but instead threw this low percentage pass down the sideline that went incomplete.

[BeerBaron]

Originally Posted by Prock

Leslie Frazier has been a solid DC for them for awhile but the end of the year reminded me why I couldn't wait to be rid of Leslie Frazier.

But yeah, seems like stagnation hit the Bills pretty hard with some of their young guys.

Those soft coverages over and over get really old. The Bengals were explicity getting the ball out of Burrow's hands quickly because of the OL situation and the Bills still seemed to have huge cushions on the WRs even into the second half.

Someone more aggressive wouldn't be a bad idea. It's funny because McDermott worked under Rivera (who traces back to Buddy Ryan) and Jim Johnson, big time "create pressure" schemers.

[Brodie]

Don't really know why the Bengals are trying to constantly cast themselves as the overlooked underdog or whatever now

[Lil Quip]

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

That's a good point, too. Miller was their "put them over the top" move and they lost him.

Still, that was a massive flame out. They just didn't show for that game after barely beating the Dolphins with a third string QB.

Assuming they keep McDermott...which coordinator do they fire? They guy getting head coach interviews after leading the #2 offense in the NFL? Or the guy they've repeatedly said it's a shame that he doesn't get HC interviews after leading the #6 defense?

They could swap out some position coaches, but that hardly feels like the "making changes" at the level that's being talked about.

There should be enough talent even without Miller and they flashed that potential during the year.

It isn't like they have been ignoring their d line and needed to Miller to revitalize a neglected unit. I remember Oliver falling to the Bills at 9 and that being declared the steal of the draft. Rousseau was a first rounder, Basham and Epensa were 2nd rounders.

[BeerBaron]

Originally Posted by Brodie

Don't really know why the Bengals are trying to constantly cast themselves as the overlooked underdog or whatever now

Eh, it's a motivation that works.

Also interesting is that neither of their coordinators are serious HC candidates this year despite back-to-back years of success on both sides. I feel like there is just something against the Bengals throughout the league. Took them a while when they were first successful under Marvin Lewis for Jay Gruden and Mike Zimmer to finally get taken seriously as head coaching candidates.

Originally Posted by Lil Quip

There should be enough talent even without Miller and they flashed that potential during the year.

It isn't like they have been ignoring their d line and needed to Miller to revitalize a neglected unit. I remember Oliver falling to the Bills at 9 and that being declared the steal of the draft. Rousseau was a first rounder, Basham and Epensa were 2nd rounders.

They definitely have other talent, even though Oliver has been a bit of an overall disappointment (though PFF and other pro-analytics folks seem to love him) but no one that has stepped up to become "the guy". Miller was supposed to be that and he unfortunately got hurt.

But their defensive strategy under Frazier hasn't been all that great. Definite bend-but-don't-break, generate pressure with the front four, everyone else in coverage, two good coverage linebackers...but it's not a way to win in the post-season when you have to disrupt guys like Burrow and Mahomes one way or another., especially as attrition hit that secondary. (Hyde, Hamlin, White not at full speed after the ACL, two rookies getting significant playing time...)

Now, I don't think a team can succeed long-term at either extreme of the defensive scale. Crazy blitz-happy teams don't work out anymore either really. I don't think we'll see another Rex Ryan Jets throwing dudes at the QB with Revis and Cromartie back. But you need to be a little more aggressive in your defensive scheme than the Bills were Sunday, and really, most of the last couple of years.

[fenikz]

I almost brought that up during the game, Brian Callahan has a pedigree and everything, figured maybe Taylor calls everything still

[Forenci]

Originally Posted by Brodie

Don't really know why the Bengals are trying to constantly cast themselves as the overlooked underdog or whatever now

Some teams thrive on that mentality. And if you’re always thinking yourself to be the underdog then you can’t really get over confident with any teams you face.

Originally Posted by Lil Quip

There should be enough talent even without Miller and they flashed that potential during the year.

It isn't like they have been ignoring their d line and needed to Miller to revitalize a neglected unit. I remember Oliver falling to the Bills at 9 and that being declared the steal of the draft. Rousseau was a first rounder, Basham and Epensa were 2nd rounders.

The pass rush definitely felt weak without Miller. Rousseau had an okay year, but it seems like he just disappears at times. Correct me if I’m wrong though, as I watch the Bills a fair bit but not all the time. Same with Basham and Espensa.

They do have a lot of talent, but they still have some holes they need to fill. They desperately need another top tier WR. No one else really scares you other than Diggs. That OLine definitely needs an infusion of some talent. I’m not really sure how Elam was this year, but more secondary help never hurts especially because it seems like they get injuries their a fair bit.

[fenikz]

Eli Giants def had that the entire time

[Brodie]

Well yeah because the Eli Giants were never good

[Damix]

It will never fail to make me chuckle how jealous Brodie is of Eli

[Lil Quip]

Also for as good as Burrow has been, they still have to transition to Burrow getting paid. I see them keeping Burrow/Chase together forever, but I see them losing a lot of talent pretty soon. Bates seems all but gone. Chase/Higgins/Boyd seem impossible to keep together.

[BeerBaron]

Considering they just extended Higgins, I think Boyd goes. Next year is the last of his contract, so they could look to trade him to get something before then or just let him walk after for a comp pick.

[Brodie]

Boyd has been completely inessential during both their playoff runs so far, so they'll be fine if he leaves

[Niel89]

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

Bill O'Brien back to the Patriots as OC.

That's going to be a huge help to get someone back in charge of the offense. They came into the year without a clear sense of offensive leadership and it showed all year. BOB should fit right back in and fix that cluster.